Ep 8: Monday 21/03/2011 – Dave looks at Batteries, voltages, amperages and…. Giantomisers! Learn why bigger isn’t always better, but sometimes is.
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Great show…..It’s much easier to understand batteries. The thing that’s going to really stick in my mind is Mr. Dorn headbangin’ at the end….hilarious!!!
It does appear like the battery can’t keep up with the higher amps, and the voltage drops. Is this an accurate statement?
Is there any way to measure the amp output from a battery under load or off load?
There is, but I haven’t as yet got it bang on repeatable for everyone. As soon as I can sort it, I’ll show it.
Dave,
You are reinventing the wheel here. The voltage drop of a battery under load is easily calculated. It is cause by the internal resistance of the battery. Every battery (at least using human technology) has an internal resistance. When you measure the voltage “open circuit” what you are measuring is technically known as the the Potential Difference. This has no relation to the batterys capacity to deliver current or it’s voltage under load. Once you create a closed circuit with a load (an atomiser for example) a current starts to flow. The current has to flow through the battery as well as the atomiser. So there is a voltage drop caused by the battery itself, which is a factor of the current being drawn. You can measure this with a standard 10 ohm resistor. Lets say for simplicity youtr battery has a 10v pd. When you connect the resistor a current flows. The volatge measured is now the PD – (internal restance x Current).
The different effects you saw are caused by the change in the internal resistance which is dependent on the battery technology.
Here is a Wiki page explaining some of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_resistance
Here is the math:
Vdrop = Vbatt*(Rbatt/(RL+Rbatt))
Where:
Vdrop is the difference in your two readings above
Vbatt is the open circuit voltage measured above
RL is the resistor you load the battery with
Rbatt is the battery internal resistance you’re looking for
If you do a bit of algebra and solve the equation above for Rbatt, you get the following equation:
Rbatt = Vdrop*(RL/(Vdrop+Vbatt))
Just plug the numbers you measured above into this equation and you’ll have your answer.
Here’s an Example:
Vbatt = 12V
When loaded with 500 ohms the battery voltage drops to 11.9 V … or Vdrop = 0.1V
Plug the numbers in:
Rbatt = 0.1*(500/(0.1+12))
Rbatt = 4.1 ohms
I wouldn’t say re-inventing the wheel – just trying to demonstrate in an easy-to-see way the practical effects of the maths/physics you describe.
Dave, I have a question. If a Silver Bullet using a 18650 at 3.7 Volts with 2600mAh (from what I understand, mAh’s is the delivery of current over 20 hours) using a LR510 aty equals 8. plus WATTS (which sounds to be the sweet spot) why are there so many people talking about 5 volts or 6 volts or what ever? Does volts change the wattage? Does that mean a 6 volt battery with a LR510 would put out like 11 to 12 WATT’s?
Thanks, Mighty Mouse
To keep things simple, if you go to the Ohm’s Law/Watt’s Law calculator I’ve linked to above, and plug some numbers in, you’ll see that it’s theoretically possible to hit 17 watts – theoretically, mind. Why anyone would want to, I don’t know, though. Thing is, with 5 or 6 volts, you get there with a standard atty as opposed to an LR – there may be longer lifetime on a standard (although, again, I have my doubts).
I had the understanding that LR510 at 1.5ohm will pop within seconds if used with a 6 volt mod. I’ve tried using normal resistance 2.8 or 3.2 with 6 volts and it was still too hot for me. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t 6 volts “penis*s” supposed to work with higher resistance “kettles”, due to the lower resistance ones being wayyyy too hot or will pop easily?
Well, yes and no – apparently there are folks who like it really hot, and, for them, 5v or 6v with a 2 ohm atty may be the way forward. But yes, an LR at 6v is more than likely to just pop – something you have to guard against using a VV mod (says he, speaking from experience), as it’s very easy to forget you’ve had an HV atty on, swap it out for an LR and forget to change the voltage. That’s where the Darwin scores…
Thanks Dave for answering my question. I used your calculator and found 3.7 with a 1.5 LR 510 gives me 9.12667 in power. Does that sound about right?
Also, the Vapetv thing went over very well last night. I held on for about 3 more hours and everyone said they enjoyed all of you.
I did find out a couple of weird things. The use of “Drip Tip Shields”? Which is nothing more than a plastic tube which goes over the aty’s tube. (http://www.empiremods.com/). They seem a bit pricey for the function. Also a mod that takes a 26650 battery called the Helix.(http://eliquidplanet.com/proddetail.php?prod=Helix). The Helix clams you can go through 20 to 30ml’s of juice before needing a charge. For a tube with a battery and a switch, that also seemed very pricey.
The two types of vaping communities did show me that at VTTV, you go for quality an practical use vs cost for each device while the other seems to be set on the next hottest new thing. Thanks for your hard work and dedication and sorting threw the BS
.
Mighty Mouse
Mighty Mouse To address some of points you raised…
One, the dripshields are not plastic. They’re metal, Aluminum to be specific. The colored ones are not simply painted, but anodized. This is why they cost what they cost. They aren’t cheap to make, and thus are not cheap to sell. They were designed by a VapeTV member named Keith ( Keon on VapeTV ), to work with his new PV ( The Empire ), which is a native 901 device. The only problem with the 901 is that, it leaks like hell, but tends to perform very nicely if you can ignore it pissing all over you. Thus, Keith designed the drip shield to prevent it leaking, it uses O-rings to seal the atomizer inside the shield(it has airholes on one end, and you can modify the draw if required by making them bigger or plugging them up). It also works with the 306 and 510 attys ( some mods require an adaptor be used to get it up high enough,) So yeah, if you’d like more infomation on them please visit his website: empiremods.com He has lots of wonderful information about them.
Second point raised was about the Helix. The Helix is a PV made by Cisco ( the guy who makes the attys
). It has been in development and we have been hearing scant little bits of information about it for a long time( Since Vapefest St. Louis , grimm green has a video of him vaping on a prototype ). It uses an IMR 26650 battery ( 4000 mah ), and it is also shipped with a sleeve for using other batteries(18650 for example). It is all mechanical ( yep, including the button ). So it should be built like a tank, according to those who have used it, it has worked very nicely. If I had to compare it to something, I’d compare it to a bigger version of a Megalodon or a Silver Bullet. So yeah, it was kind of a big event when one could actually get their hands on one after waiting for it to land on the market for so long. At $120, given the amount of machining and work that has gone into producing it, I think it’s a fair price, not amazing but fair, given that it also includes the sleeve for the 18650 batts.
As for the differences in quality vs ‘the next big thing’, I’d ask that you factor the fact that Vapefest was 1 day away from kicking off (starts on the weekend officially, but lots of people were going down a little early), which is where lots of new products are or will be introduced. I assure you, we value quality just as much as the next guy, but at the same time, having something new to play around with can be lots of fun. If I had to cast an impression on where I think that mix is, I’d say its at a healthy mix of trying new things, while at the same time, paying a bit more for the ‘good stuff’.
To the VTTV gang, wonderful show, loved it, PLEASE COME BACK SOON!
Hope I helped to clarify things,
–Jason
( Jasoncfl on vapetv / find me on twitter: @jasoncfl )
Got to say, I’m itching to get a look at some drip shields, being a 901 aficionado, and, should a Helix land on the doormat, I’d not be unhappy to have a look at it for VTTV viewers.
I believe the VTTV team will be invading VTVLive again – we’ve been invited, I just don’t know when…
Thanks for clearing that up for me Jason.
I LOVE YOU DAVE AWESOME SHOW THANK YOU GOOD SONG LOL YOU DACEING HEHE